'Lo, fellow wild mandolin players.
I played my Epiphone mandolin this weekend, 9 shows with a singing group. And the problem is that I'm not loud enough. The mandolin in question is a regular A frame F hole mandolin with steel strings. I use a medium thickness pick.
Thus, I was considering the Trinity College Octave Mandolin (Celtic type - A frame with A - hole) as a replacement because I want the instrumental sound to carry more than the first 3 rows (it's an outdoor venue). Also, I believe a harder pick makes for louder sound? And also, can you get bigger sound by using a different bridge and saddle? The ones I currently have are the stock bridge and saddle, both of wood. I believe that the larger size of the octave mando will help make it louder, as well.
Also, the Epiphone had reoccurring problems in every show because I was digging hard with the pick and the G course was moving over on the saddle so they were right next to the D course. When I moved the strings back, it of course wrecked any semblance of good tuning [during the show]. Yeah, I know it's a cheaper mandolin ($150)... but has this occurred to any of you with a more expensive piece?
Is this normal? Can it be fixed with a replacement saddle/bridge?
I played my Epiphone mandolin this weekend, 9 shows with a singing group. And the problem is that I'm not loud enough. The mandolin in question is a regular A frame F hole mandolin with steel strings. I use a medium thickness pick.
Thus, I was considering the Trinity College Octave Mandolin (Celtic type - A frame with A - hole) as a replacement because I want the instrumental sound to carry more than the first 3 rows (it's an outdoor venue). Also, I believe a harder pick makes for louder sound? And also, can you get bigger sound by using a different bridge and saddle? The ones I currently have are the stock bridge and saddle, both of wood. I believe that the larger size of the octave mando will help make it louder, as well.
Also, the Epiphone had reoccurring problems in every show because I was digging hard with the pick and the G course was moving over on the saddle so they were right next to the D course. When I moved the strings back, it of course wrecked any semblance of good tuning [during the show]. Yeah, I know it's a cheaper mandolin ($150)... but has this occurred to any of you with a more expensive piece?
Is this normal? Can it be fixed with a replacement saddle/bridge?
posted by:
|
Unsubscribed |
-
Re: Louder...
Mon, October 16, 2006 - 6:59 PMHi Pasha,
The issue with the stings jumping isn't uncommon, though its usually on instruments that haven't had much of a set up. It would probably be best to take it into a guitar repair person that is familiar with arch-tops and that sort of bridge. Heavier picks are deffinately better for volume (and playing on mando.) You might consider an A model with oval soundhole, I have a trinity bouzouki (slighly longer scale than the octavemando) but it has a completely different dynamic when playing, it deffinately isn't just interchangeable with the regular mandolin. A mandola is going to fill more of the same range as a regular and possibly be louder (think difference between violin and viola and violin and cello)
There are a few companies that make low / mid priced mandos that are loud, my little mid-missoui is fantastically loud (and quite clear.) I just played a Tacoma that was loud (not particularly nice sounding but loud.) One thing worth mentioning is if you are having to play so hard that you strings are jumping, its a good bet the present mando simply isn't ever going to be loud enough to cover what you need.
Just out of curiosity are the singers mic-ed? Hopefully these ideas might help a bit.
Duane -
-
Re: Louder...
Tue, October 17, 2006 - 7:01 AMThe Alvarez f-hole I got recently is quite loud. But have you considered going the (horrors!) dreaded piezo route? If you get a Tacoma or some other mando with a pickup, you won't have to worry about it anymore. Sure, the sound is different, but I think people at shows understand the need to get volume up to be heard throughout the crowd.....a subtle sound doesn't mean much if no one in the crowd hears it.......
You may find the chord stretches prohibitive on octave mando or bouzouki, too. -
-
Re: Louder...
Tue, October 17, 2006 - 11:27 AMyeah I completely forgot to mention the chord stretches on the octave or bouzouki -- they are horrible. Those two configurations really lend themselves to a completely different playing technique (or only playing c,g,a,d,e chords ;) . Thats funny that you mentioned the Tacoma having a pickup, i didn't even notice ... I just thought it was loud... guess I wasnt' to attentive.
I would have to agree 100% about the applification issue, as much as I don't like things being overly applified (depending on music of course) if no one can hear it, it doesn't do any good either.
-
Unsu...
Re: Louder...
Tue, October 17, 2006 - 1:42 PMWalt, I'll only be able to use electric once in a while, so I'm going to concentrate on whatever measures I can do to get an instrument that is loud to begin with and then modify what I can to make it louder. I can always strum quieter, but if you're digging hard with the pick and all you can summon is a single fortissimo, it's useless.
How soon will my fingertips (on my left hand) stop feeling numb? I've only been playing for a month now. -
-
Re: Louder...
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 9:19 AMHas anyone had any experience with Paris Swing mandos?
www.parisswing.com/
They have an A style with a large oval or D hole
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Louder...
Tue, October 17, 2006 - 1:39 PMDuane:
There's ten lovely bosomed women singing, and me +1-2 other gents playing instruments. (Color me lucky!) Because it's an outdoor environment most of the time and we can't be mic'd or amplified, I need to figure out strategies to make the instrument loud enough. (I've got a guitar player and a cittern player much of the time, as well, so that might help volume-wise.)
Would a bridge/saddle replacement help? I've got the typical wood saddle with two screws floating over the wood bridge. Since that's the primary sound conductor for the vibration from the strings... has anyone managed to get louder sound from a different kind of bridge & saddle? How about a one-piece saddle?
And... wouldn't a hard pick cause more string jumping problems? Gotta tell ya, it was very interesting to find out about the string jumping in the middle of a show. I just pretended I didn't need to play it for the rest of the song, but I was pretty annoyed. (Maybe a backup mandolin on the sides, all tuned up and ready to go, might help.)
I'm currently looking at the Trinity College TM-325 Octave Mandolin -- retails for about $400 or so. Bigger body = boomier sound, plus that A hole instead of the tiny F holes.
Also, any particular strings give louder sound?
-
-
Re: Louder...
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 8:42 AMI love my TM-325. Very good sound and design for the money. Pretty good projection (especially in the bottom and mid-range ends) and high-quality enough to be worth putting a little more money into someday getting a decent pickup, saddle mic or whatever. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Louder...
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 9:09 AMI spoke with a vendor near my house and they have apparently a way to get their hands on a TC TM325, only it's under a different name ("Johnson." So if I order it, will they say "Your Johnson couldn't come?" Sorry. Had to say it). But it's the exact same mandolin, say they. Anyone else heard of this? It's the same price as the Trinity ($389) but without the cool hard case. -
-
Re: Louder...
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 10:58 AMHi Pasha,
So amplification deffinatley sounds like a non-solution.... I would get the mando into a skilled repair person (that has dealt with mandos) and see if they could fit a single piece bridge (or craft one,) that should help some - but likely not dramaticly. It seems like you should deffinately explore some other mando options, ideally from some that has a range that you could try back to back. I still don't think that the Trinity (or Johnson, they are from the same factory) octave is the best solution, because the tone and playability are vastly different - you also mentioned that you have a cittern player - depending on the companies scale length deffinition the cittern could very well wind up being exactly the same instrument as the octave. Some companies consider the octave scale length the same as the cittern, and some equate the bouzouki with being a cittern (never mind if they have 4 or 5 or 6 courses of strings.) All that being said, the octaves and the bouzoukis are very cool instruments anyway.
I've tried a few of the Paris Swing mandos, great looking, but I think that they sound quite poor. But I wasn't evaluating for loudness. I've come to be a huge fan of my Mid-Missoui mando, and am considering picking up another. I've played it (unamplified) while competing with guitars and drums and it has proven to still be audible.
Duane -
-
Re: Louder...
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 12:21 PMThanks Duane, I've seen pics of the Paris Swing stuff but never been able to hear one or handle one.
j
-
Unsu...
Re: Louder...
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 1:22 PMI saw an interesting site, don't have the link at the moment, on single bridge construction for a mandolin, and the gent offered patterns plus advice on how to fashion one-- apparently they're not completely even because the bass side needs to be shortened-- and it looks very, very interesting. The idea behind it was to create a sound bridge/saddle that was one piece, rather like a violin bridge, and thus skip any sound conduction problems caused by having two pieces of wood with two pieces of metal conducting the sound.
When playing by myself with the ladies, I'm sure an octave would be a nice sound, better than the mandolin which has that soprano range and is only repeating the ladies' range. But when playing with the cittern & guitar, I'll be looking into picking various things, rather than being the steady chord rhythm underneath it all. So, I'm interested in the options of having both. Also, an Octave will be a nice backup if I'm pounding away on the Epiphone and something goes wrong. Judging by the number of technical problems I had, I suspect a backup instrument will be very very useful.
You say playability might be an issue with an octave? In the sense the frets are wider, right? Is there something else I should be alert for when playing it?
-
-
Re: Louder...
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 11:56 AMYeah, I think Johnson and Trinity both come right off the same conveyor belt in Taiwan or something. Y'know who would know for sure? Elderly Instruments in Lansing, MI; those guys are KING when it comes to acoustic folk instruments. Google 'em and get their 1-800 number.
Kinda wrong, it not coming with a case. There was a guy on eBay this same time last year who was selling the Trinity College octave mando for $399, case AND shipping included.
Sure, neither the Trinity College nor the Johnson are absolutely irreplaceable instruments that you will want to be buried with when you die ... but, for octave mandos, the next grade up in sound, design and overall quality always seems to involve DOUBLING the price which, for some of us, is not a happy option. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Louder...
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 1:26 PMHey Geoff- that guy is still selling his $400 mandolin w/ case with free shipping. I'd like to give the business to my local musician's shop, though, it comes out almost the same, though the taxes will be $24. Hmmm. Perhaps you're right... Save myself $30 on e-Bay -and- get the more popular named instrument, though said LMS did give me the information that Johnson & Trinity College are the same thing.
Luckily, the girlfriend seemed to be okay with spending 4 C notes on a new instrument, especially since I just bought the Epiphone mandolin a month ago... and am still making payments on my violin.
-
-
-
-
-
